Rob Bell in hell part 3: "Rob WHO?" and "what every pastor knows but can't tell about hell"

"Rob who?"

I love when I am speaking to a group, and wanting to set up a Rob Bell video clip, find out that no one has heard of him.

Yes, that still happens.  (:

But I still, after the clip, often say something like: "One of the most important things I can say about a Rob Bell clip  is 'Don't hear what he's not saying."

Just because he talks for an hour about Revelation and never once mentions the end times doesn't mean he doesn't believe in them.  He is just trying to show what most people don't seem to know: that "Revelation was written to real people in a real place and time," and that historical context is crucial.

Then, I often say, "He sometimes talks large, creatively and sweepingly.  He may or may not have gotten the details of his physics right ("Everything is Spiritual")   or the details regarding Roman emperors perfect (at Willow Creek)
 ,and he may wrongly import some traditions from  later Judaism back into Jesus day ("Dust of the Rabbi,").....but let'd deal with his main point (in the last case, that Jesus was a Jewish rabbi, among other things), as it was well-presented, well on-target and and well worthy of discussion..
 He helpfully/maddeningly/inevitably/prophetically overemphasizes a point because it  has been hugely  underemphasized,  ignobily ignored or even downright denied.

Or not allowed to even be discussed..."in church."

I lost a Facebook friend because he thought I posted too many blog posts on sexuality.
In response, I posted (in a post about sex):

(Editors note: I am sure some people think I am obsexxed and talk about sex too much on this blog. You need to know that the sexuality/spirituality connection is one..and only one...of six stated categories for this blog...and the one I likely post on least.So sorry if I offend you for the wrong reason, but one of the reasons we are in the mess we are in in church and culture is "You can't talk about sex in church."
Well, as Rob Bell has asked:" where do you WANT to talk about it?"

And just because I am showing a clip of Rob Bell for a retreat, sermon, or class doesn't mean that I necessarily agree with every detail of everything he says...but since when does that have to be the case?? As I post on the sidebar of my blog:

"DUMB DISCLAIMER":It should go without saying...but i wouldn't want it to... that since this blog is a Spiritaneous place to throw out thoughts/feelings/articles "in process," it does not represent any of the fine institutions you see by my profile that I am affiliated with (Heck, it may not even represent me! (:........). The blog is merely an attempt to subvert subversion and"push toward the unobvious"(Thanks, Tim N. for that phrase) on the six hot topics listed at the top of the page....Welcome, engage it, and don't be offended (for the wrong reason, anyway!)

 I may not even agree with me, but   I am indeed hoping to agree with Jesus.

And allowing conversation and questions  to actually happen.

Which takes me to hell.

I mean the topic, not the destiny (:

Bell has said many times recently:

"I believe in heaven and hell"
"I believe in hell now and hell later."

Yet it does feel, in the book, he has made too much of "hell on earth"..The Bible does not ever use the hell terms s as earthly realities.   It does however talk much about the kingdom of heaven,...on earth/.
Just read the Lord's prayer, or consider Jesus' core message (Matthew 4:17).
Bell's  point  is  well-taken yet perhaps too provocative for its own good.
Maybe that's  subconsciously on purpose..Maybe Bell et al need and bleed controversy

Speaking of..
It is actually amazing that I have not officially yet heard an evangelical officially announce/suggest that Bell is actually hellbound  for his hell related "heresy" ("hellesy")...  unless that is what John Piper mean by  his infamous (and as yet unexplained) "Farewell, Rob Bell" tweet.  (Btw, here and here and here are some guesses.  Here is a hilarious spoof).

Some come close.

Van Impe (below)  does  say"God forgive you, Rob Bell,"
 ...but the two matters in need of forgiveness (Bell  "doesn't believe in hell or the Virgin Breath"  are both based on  misunderstandings

Read the books, or at least hear from Bell's own mouth that he believes in both:

  And John McArthur (read Tim's important post , Why I think Rob Bell and John Piper are more similar than not):
  )

“The sad reality is that if Rob Bell does not confess the truth in this life, one day he will realize how wrong his understanding of hell really is. His view of hell will be painfully altered forever when he receives the more severe punishment reserved for those who with a Bible in their hands mock God and trample the blood of Christ underfoot.”
http://www.gty.org/Blog/B110421

And one reason why evangelicals can't claim Bell is hellbound is "once saved, always saved" theology.   (they could make the case that he is a false prophet and never saved to start with..

But here is one place we all need Bell's book. 

 Just like I maintain that every pastor knows that the Bible knows absolutely nothing of Christians showing up for a weekly worship service where a pastor preaches a sermon,

or even a church led by a pastor...

.. but we just can't deal with all the changes we'd have to make if we acted on that truth.. (link)

 Every pastor knows,  but few can admit out loud, that

Rob is also right in his analysis on pp. 80-83 that Jesus talked about Hell to his fellow Jewish believers,  and furthermore,  he talked about them being in danger of going there because of their bad behavior— like that of the rich man in relationship to Lazarus.  Behavior might not get you into the Kingdom,  but it sure can get you an early checkout notice from being amongst the elect.   This is precisely what Paul is saying in Gal. 5.19-21 when he warns his converts in Galatia that if they persist in behaving badly, in these various listed ways, “you will not inherit God’s kingdom”.    Jesus says nothing different from this.
If the so called elect or saved behave consistently or continually in such a way that their lives as a whole could be characterized as a life of adultery etc.   they will have committed apostasy, and will not enter God’s coming future kingdom.   These warnings are incompatible with an eternal security notion, which neither Jesus nor Paul affirmed.   Rob is quite right— it the pious Jews, the truly converted, even the Christians, who are being warned about apostasy in such texts.   And it is not like they are the only NT figures giving us believers such warnings—go read Hebrews 6 again.    As Rob puts it on pp. 82-83— “whatever chosen-ness or election meant, whatever special standing they believed they had with God was always, only, ever about their being the kind of transformed, generous, loving people through whom God could show the world what God’s love looks like in flesh and blood.”   Amen to that. Ben Witherington,  Part 3

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This leads me to link you the detailed reviews of Bell's hell book by well-respected evangelical scholars/professors: Ben Witherington (just quoted), and Scot McKnight.

They help unpack the issues re: universalism, etc.  But perhaps most helpfully, deal with Bell's sometimes sloppy exegesis on his way to making a point.

Here McKnight takes Bell to task, on one of the questions I had upon reading Bell:

In this context he brings up the Greek word kolazo (it should be kolasis since the noun is used in Matthew 25), and Rob says something that must be flagged as unfair. He says kolazo “refers to the pruning and trimming of the branches of a plant so it can flourish” (91), and the noun is combined with aionion (he uses aion) and says this is an “aion of kolazo” or a “period of pruning.” Again, check BDAG [infliction of chastisement, punishment, transcendent retribution, punishment; under kolazo, the verb, penalize, punish ... finishing with "Aristotle's limitation of the term... to disciplinary action ... is not reflected in gener. usage"]. My point: it is simply disingenuous to say without qualification that it means pruning, and it is unfair to readers not to say that most — if not almost all — instances refer to a kind of retributive punishment and chastisement — there is very little emphasis in this word’s usage that suggests punish to improve and much more punish full stop. Here’s the big point: this is about Life and Kolasis/Punishment in The Age to Come. The Age to Come is everlasting.  link

• Scot McNight's 9-part review is  here, and..he wisely begings each post with a prayer
• Ben Witherinton's   8-part is here

(You should also check one of my seminary prof's responses, as he did in PhD on hell:
"Go to Hell, Rob Bell? " by Jerry Walls)


Witherington is helpful:

If you were to actually begin reading Love Wins with the very last chapter, you would quickly see why I have said the book deserves to be evaluated primarily as a poetic expression of Rob’s faith.   It is not an exercise in detailed exegesis or systematic theology any more than the psalms (songs) should be evaluated as systematic theology.    While I agree that the underlying theological assumptions and assertions in this book are fair game for close analysis and critique,  you would be missing the point if that is all you do.    Love, in the end, will not crawl under a microscope and submit to sterile scientific analysis.   Thank goodness.   God’s love for all of us of course could hardly be summed up in even all the books in the world.

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PS: From the evangelical scholars to the but more provocative writers, then.
David Dark, author of  is amazing.
His review of Bell is here,
and just the fact that it  uses the word
"transpartisan" and quotes Modest Mouse recommend it(:

And  finally, for now...Francis Chan on humility and  the hell debate: