• Wow, thanks to everyone,,very helpful conversation. i am aware than in a saw it's a false question...and also the latest hipster question, but i usually make the case that missiology precedes..A comment by @Fran Rollins on this reallly impacted me..see my post here for my answer:http://davewainscott.blogspot.com/2011/09/summary-which-comes-first-missiology-or.html
  • Donna Bell Sanders · Answered missiology (mission)
    I thought this note might be interesting for this conversation.
      • Dave Wainscott oh yes! ESJ is so relevant still (again/always) Love it
        27 minutes ago · 
  • Richard Thompson · Answered missiology (mission)
    Missiology must come first, but very fast on its heels is ecclesiology because we are human, and any human endeavor (even for God's mission) will need organizational considerations and means for discipleship (training new missionaries). Paul went up to Jerusalem to be instructed by the Apostles. They had a missiology and ecclesiology.
      • Dave Wainscott well said, love the way you model it, and love the "fast on its heels" line
        26 minutes ago · 
  • Leonard Hjalmarson · Answered missiology (mission)
    Yep, given a choice it has to be mission. If we go to ontology, and I think we have to do that, God is on mission and that results in the church through the sending of Jesus and the Spirit.
  • I don't know. But I do that Blake Snyder gave us more than I first realized when he redifined story's three act structure as Thesis, Antithesis, and Synthesis. The reason stories written with those redfined acts resonate so deeply is because they are the story of humanity. Thesis (created man), Antithesis (fallen man), Synthesis (redeemed/glorified man). I'm going to write an article.... possibly a book. We'll see where it goes.
      • Dave Wainscott now that's a fascinating connection to Hegel/Snyder..please do write on
        25 minutes ago · 
  • Donna Bell Sanders · Answered missiology (mission)
    Hmm. It's hard to realize the calling in its full power without the ecclesia. But it's equally difficult to have a true ecclesia without purpose and mission. The truth is though, the church tries to do that, it seems. In many churches, the mission becomes narrow, petty and pointless. True mission = true church. It's all about relationship isn't it -- our relationship to God, our compassion for the world, our forbearance of one another. They will know who we are by our love.
  • Where is the abstain box? I don't like hypothetical bifurcations. ;-)
    Newbigin’s idea of “mission” -- The mission of the church is not as much about obedience to a “missionary mandate” as it is participation in the ongoing work of a redemptive God. The missio Dei is not our mission, it is God’s mission. It is the grand...
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      • Dave Wainscott he hee i did that on purpose, Tim.. And look what our friend the non-bifurcating Kenneth G Hawes did..he added a third option to the poll itself! I really love your statement, especially " The church IS the mission of God"..nails it..were you referencing your diss or another article?
        22 minutes ago · 
  • Belinda McDanel · Answered ecclesiology (church)
    My first thought is that the church comes first. Christ is returning for his church. There is a relational quality to the church that touches the depths of the greatest commandment. Being with God. Loving God. Loving one another. Mission reminds me more about doing. Although, it seems that mission and church are inseparable like being and doing. I don't know. I need to think about this.
      • Dave Wainscott i love your brain...and need to listen and read yor answer a lot..partly because all hipsters know the "real" right answer is supposed to be missiology. YES< do Keep thinking..and post more thoughts, Belinda McDanel
        19 minutes ago · 
  • Rich Kriegbaum · Answered missiology (mission)
    If by mission we mean God's "mission" or purpose for acting in our world, then both in time sequence and in logical relationship, mission precedes a particular expression like the church.
      • Dave Wainscott the phrase "time sequence and in logical relationship" helps a lot..wish I'd said it that way
        19 minutes ago · 

  • Kevin Phillips · Answered missiology (mission)
    Dave, missiology is the out-going movement of the Holy Spirit within the Triune nature. Missio means to "send out" and refers to the sending of the Holy Spirit from God the Father and/or the Son depending on where you land on the ancient controversy that split the Eastern and Western Church so long ago. The church's m...
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  • Rick Bartlett · Answered missiology (mission)
    God is a missionary God. The incarnation is a manifest for the church.
      • Dave Wainscott preach it! uh, i mean,"mission" it
        18 minutes ago · 
  • T.C. Porter · Answered ecclesiology (church)
    i know the 'correct' answer today is missiology. but i think the body of christ is central to being a faithful follower; being a participant in the family. mission is obviously important.
      • Dave Wainscott Love it..not just because you go against the grain..but because as true pastor, you GET church
        17 minutes ago · 
  • Greetings Dave. I was hoping you would respond to my last message. Regarding the poll, I don't understand. What do you mean, which came first? Are they mutually exclusive? Do you mean in the earliest church? Do you mean as a field of study in modern times? What do you mean by each? Ernst Troeltsch has some fascinating insights into this question, written long ago. Hope you are well.
      • Dave Wainscott Hey RR..Sorry if i missed an earlier message from you! Feel free to resend. Yes all is well . On the question, I purposely left it open,,but i would say the "which comes first" means biblically (and thus early church), which flows out of the other, maybe theological precedence..Troeltsch was a great thinker...but so are you, I like you more!// weigh in..I'll post my answer in a few days..enjoying everyone else's
        September 18 at 10:04pm · 
  • Cory Seibel · Answered missiology (mission)
    Mission precedes ecclesiology because it is rooted in the character of God. Mission does not fundamentally belong to the church. Rather, God's mission constitutes the rationale for the church's existence and defines the reality in which the church is called to participate.
      • Dave Wainscott love it. "The church doesn't have a mission, the mission has a church"
        17 minutes ago · 
  • I would have to ague that "Christiology" should proceed both. After all Christ is in charge of ecclesiology and has a better outlook on missiology than any of us. Eph 5:1 be imitators and Mt 22:37 loving God and other may sum up both ecclesiology and missiology. But hey I am just a simpleton looking to make church and the work of it less complex.........but relationship is complex.
  • when i created the poll, i meant to set it so you had to choose one of the two answers. But it lets readers add an answer if they wan't, and i can['r adjust it. Please don't add an answer, i really want your opinion if you had to choose one or the other. Then down here in the comments section, you can explain your answer, or mention alternatives..Thx